Papers of John Adams, volume 17

From the Abbés Chalut and Arnoux, 26 September 1785 Chalut, Abbé Arnoux, Abbé Adams, John
From the Abbés Chalut and Arnoux
Paris 26. 7bre 1785.

Vous nous avez fait, notre cher ami, un veritable plaisir en nous donnant de vos nouvelles;1 nous avons Souvent prié M. Jefferson de vous faire parvenir nos Compliments et de vous temoigner tous nos regrets sur votre absence, il n’a surement pas manqué de remplir Cette Commission.

Si nous ne consultions que l’amitié que nous avons pour vous, nous ferions le voyage de Londres nous avons tant et tant de Chaines qui nous retiennent, qu’il faut que nous renoncions à Cette douce Satisfaction. tout Ce que nous pouvons faire c’est de vous donner de nos nouvelles et de vous assurer que nous vous aimons toujours et que nous Sommes disposés à faire tout Ce qui pourra vous etre agreable2

vous pouvez, notre cher ami, faire valoir notre zele à vous Servir dans tout Ce qui dependra de nous. nos Services ne Cesseront pas d’etre à vos ordres, et nous mettrons au nombre de nos plaisirs Celui de vous etre utile.

nous nous flattons, et notre amitié pour vous est notre garans, que vos nouveaux amis de Londres ne vous ont pas fait oublier Ceux de Paris. nos droits Sur votre Cœur Sont et Seront respectés par votre vertu. vous ne trouverez pas dans toute l’Angleterre et meme dans votre nouvelle republique, des amis qui vous Soient plus Sincerement et plus Constamment attachés que nous. vous Connoissez notre façon de penser, la forme de notre gouvernement n’a pas deformé notre ame, nous Conservons notre raison avec tous Ses privileges. nous Sommes veritablement philantropes. mais nous avons des sentiments particuliers, que nous n’accordons pas à la generalité. nous Sçavons distinguer les talents et les vertus et placer auprès d’eux notre estime et notre respect.—

vous voyez, notre Cher ami, qu’avec notre philantropie vous n’êtes pas Confondu avec la foule. vous meritez à la verité Cette distinction et notre amitié vous rend Cette justice.

477

nous Sommes bien Sensible au souvenir de Mde et de Mlle. Adams. nous vous prions de les assurer de notre attachement respectueux, vous étes heureux par votre femme et par vos enfants. nous vous en felicitons, vous le Serez encore par vos petits enfants parce que la vertu est toujours une Source de bonheur.

Votre Sagesse ne vous permettoit pas de nous parler des affaires de votre Ministere, nous Sçavons ce que vous devez à votre qualité d’homme public. nous profiterons de notre liberte d’hommes privés pour vous dire que quand on traite des affaires d’Etat et que l’avarice Se mele de la partie, on trouvee mille et mille obstacles. on voit avec douleur que la bonheur des nations n’est pas l’objet essentiel des gouvernements. ils ne veulent que de l’argent de l’argent et de l’argent. ils n’aiment le Commerce ils ne le favorisent ils ne l’étendent que pour avoir de l’argent. ils Scavent qu’avec ce metal et nos idees, ils Seront maitres de tout. dans cet état de choses nous vous plaignons et nous partageons vos peines et vos embarras. il vous a été plus facile de Conquerir votre liberté que de faire entendre raison à l’avarice; notre interest pour l’amerique nous a fait partager les heureux Succès de votre guerre, le meme interest nous fera partager ceux de votre mission.

nous reclamons votre amitié, notre cher Monsieur, en faveur de M. Poncet Celebre Sculpteur françois que les Affaires Conduisent à Londres.3 il vous remettra notre lettre. nous aimons et nous estimons Cet Artiste, et nous vous prions de lui faire toutes les politesses qui dependrons de vous. notre amitié vous tiendra Compte de tout ce que vous ferez pour lui. nous l’avons prié de nous apporter de vos nouvelles et de Celles de vos dames. Son Sejour à londres ne sera que d’un mois. vous avez tout le tems necessaire pour nous ecrire une longue et très longue lettre, votre françois nous plait beaucoup, vous Connoissez assez notre langue pour nous Communiquer toutes les idées et tous les Sentiments que votre Coeur vous inspirera pour deux abbés qui vous ont voué leur estime et leur amitié et qui Seront toujours avec ces Sentiments / notre cher ami / vos très humbles / et très obeissants serviteurs

L’A. Chalut l’abbé Arnoux.

nous avons bien recommandé à M. Poncet, de nous apporter une lettre de votre part. Comme il aura l’honneur de diner avec vous et de boire avec vous à notre Santé à Son retour à Paris nous boirons à la votre et à Celle de vos dames

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TRANSLATION
Paris, 26 September 1785

You granted us a distinct pleasure, dear friend, in sending us word of yourself.1 We have oftentimes begged Mr. Jefferson to send you our compliments and to attest to you how much we regret your absence. Surely he has not failed to satisfy our request.

If it were up to the friendship alone which we feel for you, we would make the voyage to London. We have so many chains which tie us down that we must give up the hope of such a sweet satisfaction. All that we may do is to send you news of us, and to assure you that we love you still and that we are disposed to do everything that might be agreeable to you.2

You may, dear friend, call on our zeal to serve you in everything that is in our power. Our services will never cease to be at your command, and we count our being useful to you among our pleasures.

We flatter ourselves, and our friendship for you assures us, that your new London friends have not caused you to forget those of Paris. Our rights upon your heart are and shall be respected by your virtue. You will not find in all of England, and even in your new republic, any friends who are more sincerely and more steadfastly devoted to you than us. You are familiar with our way of thinking, our form of government has not corrupted our soul, and we conserve our reason with all of its privileges. We are truly philanthropes, but we have certain feelings which we do not bestow upon everyone in general. We know how to distinguish talents and virtues, and to invest our esteem and our respect in them.

You see then, our dear friend, that by our philanthropy you are not thrown in with the masses. In truth, you deserve this distinction and in this our friendship does you justice.

We cherish well our recollections of Mrs. and Miss Adams. We pray you remind them of our respectful attachment. You are blessed by your wife and children. We congratulate you. You will be all the more by your grandchildren because virtue is always a source of happiness.

Your wisdom did not permit you to speak of the affairs of your office. We know what you owe to your duty as a man of public service. We take advantage of the liberty of private men in telling you that when engaged in political matters, if avarice gets involved in the situation, one finds thousands upon thousands of obstacles. We painfully recognize that the well-being of nations is not the principal object of governments. They desire but money and money and more money. They love commerce, they favor it, they help it expand only to have money. They know that with that metal and our ideas they shall be masters over everything. In this state of affairs we commiserate with you and share your troubles and your difficulties. It was easier for you to win your liberty than to make avarice hear reason. Our concern for America had us share the fortunate outcome of your war; the same concern will have us share that of your mission.

We call upon your friendship, our dear sir, to favor Mr. Poncet, 479celebrated French sculptor, who is headed to London on business.3 He will transmit our letter to you. We love and esteem this artist, and we beg you to grant him all of the courtesies in your power. Our friendship shall not neglect to repay everything you might do for him. We have asked him to bring us news of you and of your ladies. His stay in London will be for only a month. You have all the requisite time to write us a nice, long letter. Your French pleases us greatly. You know our language well enough to communicate all the ideas and all the sentiments that your heart will inspire you for two priests who have vowed you their esteem and their friendship, and who shall always be, with these same sentiments, dear friend, your most humble and most obedient servants

L’A. Chalut l’abbé Arnoux.

We have recommended to Mr. Poncet that he bring us a letter from you. As he will have the honor of dining with you and drinking with you to our health, upon his return to Paris we will drink to yours and that of your ladies.

RC (Adams Papers); endorsed: “Abbés Chalut et / Arnoux.”; notation: “26. Septr 1785.”

1.

If, as the abbés seem to indicate here, and in the seventh paragraph below, JA had written to them since his arrival in London, the letter has not been found. For the Abbés Chalut and Arnoux, who had been close to the Adams family at Auteuil and had known JA since his earliest days in France in 1778, when they helped him learn French, see JA, D&A , 2:317; 4:59.

2.

Thomas Jefferson wrote to AA on 7 July 1785 that the abbés would be forced to remain in Paris for the summer because of their responsibility to settle the affairs of the Abbé de Mably, who had died in April and with whom Chalut and Arnoux had resided (vol. 16:538–539; AFC , 6:224).

3.

This is François Marie Poncet (1736–1797), a French sculptor (Oxford Art Online). Arriving in London in early October, Poncet dined with the Adamses on the 11th. AA2 thought him “un homme a d’Esprit” but rendered his name as “Mr. Pointsa” ( AFC , 6:435). He returned to Paris by 21 Oct., the date of the abbés’ letter to JA in which they thanked him for the kindness shown to Poncet (Adams Papers).

From Philip Mazzei, 27 September 1785 Mazzei, Philip Adams, John
From Philip Mazzei
Dear Sir, Paris, 27. September 1785.

Permit me, Sir, to give you my sincere thanks for the Kind letter you have taken the trouble to write to Mr. Jefferson on my account.1 I hope you recd. of Col. Franks my preceding of the 5th. instt., & would be much obliged to you, Sir, for the testimonial of the British merchts. I took the liberty in it to ask you for, as well as the other informations, should there by any Virginian able to furnish you with them. I would likewise be glad to Know the day of the first meeting of our Convention; as I only remember it was in the month of August 1784.

Having been pleased to express some time past, that you would 480not dislike to hear the motives, which induced me to think of & promote in Virginia the institution of a Society, now called the Constitutional Society, I shall endeavour to account for it as well as I can.

I must observe, Sir, that our Convention, in the spring of 1776, assumed to form a Constitution without a special power from the People to that effect; at a time too, when a good number of the Representatives were gone home for harvest, & those who remained were of course in a great hurry to go.2 I complained loudly of that step, & wrote a piece on purpose, which was signed by about 7/8 of my fellow-Countrymen to serve as Instructions to our Delegates, declaring that we would submit to it for the present, not to give our Enemy the hope of a want of union among us, but that we would considere it as a Govt. intended to serve only pro tempore, untill we should be at leasure to make a solid one with proper power, & the requisite solemnity. My dear Sir, I was (to my sorrow) the only person in Virginia, who made any public complaint about it, pointing out the dreadful evils our Posterity might labour under, from our want of legality, & even solemnity, in an affair likely to decide of the future happiness, or misery of a Community. Mr. Jefferson, who was at that time in Congress with Mr. Wythe, wrote a letter to Mr. Edd. Randolph in Williamsburgh, in which he observed that our Delegates had no right to make a Constitution without a special power from the People. I never heared that any thing more was said on that subject, during the war.

In the forming of the Constitution they lost sight of the Bill of Rights, & in every session of Assembly they have since departed, both from the Bill of Rights & the Constitution.

You will agree with me, I hope, Sir, in thinking that it would be dangerous to let our present Constitution remain upon an illegal foundation, was it even as good a one as we could wish. But, Sir, to mention only a few errors of the most alarming— One branch of our Legislature is omnipotent; the other, who ought to act as a wise & prudent tutor, is rendered almost insignificant & contemptible; our first Magistrate is a cyfer; the Executive & Judiciary Powers are totally dependent on the Legislative; the right of Suffrage & Representation is still on a very unequal footing; & the mode of election is upon the whole exceedingly bad.

When I lately returned to Virginia, I heared that Mr. Patrick Henry had declared against innovations. He had just gone home from the Assembly, where he had been a strong advocate against paying the 481british debts, & giving Congress the power of regulating trade. I went 250. miles to spend 5. days with him, on purpose to try what I could do. One of the most noble, most sensible, & virtuous men on the Globe, Col. James Madison (with whom I had been 9. days to consult, & digest matters) dispaired I could succeed in any one point.3 However, I succeeded fully on the article of giving power to Congress, & partly on the affair of the british debts. As to the Constitution, he agreed on its containing many errors, but declared against innovations for reasons which I could not, & I dare say you would not allow to be good. I wish that our old Friend may not be desirous of Keeping omnipotence in that House, where he himself is omnipotent. Probably he flatters himself, that no great evil will ever happen, because he does not see it imminent. I have Known many characters, who would have sacrificed their passions to the public good, if those passions had not mislead their judgement.

I have always been of opinion, that Freedom cannot long subsist in any Country, unless the generality of the People are sensible of its blessings, & tolerably well acquainted with the principles on which alone it can be supported. The situation I found my dear Country in, as soon as I arrived there, made me conclude that it was high time to do some thing for the instruction of the mass of People. I conceived that nothing could answer my end better than a Society, founded on the principles contained in the printed paper I took the liberty to send you. I conceived likewise, that when the People see a number of respectable men, among whom some of the first characters in the Country, purposely imployed in instructing them (in which undertaking they can have no particular interest, besidess the noble satisfaction of exerting their talents in support of liberty) they will not only be thankfull to them, but they also will, in all matters not easily understood, pay regard to their opinion in preference to that of certain persons, who now too easily & too often succeed to mislead them. You Know, Sir, much better than I do, that there will always be, in all Countries, some regulations necessary to be made for the wellfare of the Community, which will afford the cunning & self-interested favorable opportunities to deceive a number of good men; because their inconveniencies will easily & soon be seen & felt, while their good effects (’though so far superior as to bear no comparison with the inconveniencies) cannot be conceived, or rather foreseen but by a few, on account of their being remote, & the result of a variety & a complication of causes.

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You may have observed, Sir, that there is among the Subscribers a number of men able to do a great deal of good, provided they can overcome indolence, the infernal Goddess who precide in all our affairs both public & private. There would have been a many more, had it been more Known, which was prevented by our being too scattered. But since its publication I understood that other clever fellows had applied to become Members. Col. George Mason, on whom I called in May last in my way to New-York, as soon as he saw the plan assured me he would be a Member, & do his duty as such.4 I wish he really would, as he can be an amazingly useful one. For my part, I can do very a little in it, but I will not certainly be backward in doing my duty; and as long as I do it to the best in my power, I shall feel a self approbation of my conduct. I do not conceive that the bad effects of the existing imperfections in our Govt. will affect me; I am old, & have no children; but the honest part of the inhabitants of this Globe are my brethren, Posterity my children; & was I to go & spend the remainder of my days in China, I would with pleasure, & in compliance with what I think my duty, contribute all my exertions to the forming of an asylum for Mankind from oppression.

I take the liberty to inclose you a copy of my Essay on Sumptuary Laws, mentioned in the records of the Society, & would be obliged to you for your opinion of it, in regard to the sentiments only, as I can have no pretension to the diction.5

I would take it as a particular favour, if you would with the whole power of your eloquence express to your most worthy Lady the high esteem, respect, & veneration, which from your Knowledge of me you can easily conceive I must entertain of her, after having been informed by our noble friend Mr. Jefferson of her charming, wonderful, & truly uncommon merit. I do not wonder now, that you could no be happy so far a part from so sensible & so amiable Companion.

I am with the most sincere attachment, & profound respect, / Dear Sir, / your Excellcy: most Humble, & / most Obedient Servant

Philip Mazzei

RC and enclosure (Adams Papers); internal address: “His Excellency John Adams Esqr.”; endorsed: “Mr Mazzei. / 5. septr. 1785.” The enclosure, for which see note 5, was filmed at [1780–1788?], APM Reel 353.

1.

Of 11 Sept. (LbC, APM Reel 111), for which see Thomas Jefferson’s 4 Sept. letter, note 5, above.

2.

When Gov. John Murray, 4th Earl of Dunmore, dissolved the House of Burgesses in 1774, the patriots replaced it almost 483immediately with a new legislative body, the Virginia Convention. In 1776 that body adopted a constitution for Virginia, in response to Congress’ recommendation that the colonies assume the powers of government. Mazzei believed that since the people had not specifically charged the convention with forming a constitution, the resulting document was simply a legislative act that could be altered like any other piece of legislation. Therefore, a special convention was needed to put its imprimatur on the fundamental law of the commonwealth, and it was for the purpose of achieving such an outcome that the Constitutional Society was created.

Jefferson, whose drafts influenced the 1776 constitution, shared Mazzei’s opinion and expounded on the issue at considerable length in his Notes on the State of Virginia, [Paris, 1785], Query 13, but a formal constitutional convention was not called until 1829, and then it produced the amended constitution of 1830. JA did not reply to this letter, nor did he supply Mazzei with the information requested, but he would have been interested in the 1776 constitution’s fate since the convention acted owing to a congressional resolution moved by JA. Moreover, the resulting constitution was heavily influenced by his Thoughts on Government (Philadelphia, 1776), which was taken from a letter by JA to George Wythe responding to the Virginian’s request for advice on forming a new government (vol. 4:65–93).

3.

The minutes of the Constitutional Society indicate that James Madison and Patrick Henry were both members (Adams Papers). For Mazzei’s visits to Madison in the spring of 1784 and his subsequent meeting with Henry, see Madison, Papers, Congressional Series , 8:19–20, 22.

4.

There is no indication that George Mason became a member of the Constitutional Society (Mazzei, Writings, 1:446–449).

5.

The enclosure, entitled “Essay on Sumptuary Laws” and consisting of three and a quarter folio pages, is presumably that which the account of the 29 June 1784 meeting of the Constitutional Society—probably its last— indicates “Mr. Mazzei read to the Society” (Adams Papers). Mazzei’s essay focused on the need to prevent or prohibit “extravagance in dressing,” the “greatest enemy” to “good morals.” He ended by beseeching his fellow members to consider that “if the entire liberty of ostentation be left to the opulent, envy, jealousy, & natural pride will induce mankind to make all their efforts to acquire riches by any means even the most illegal, as has ever been & will ever be the case, & the excess of vice will ruin any Community whatever, altho’ its Government be in every other respect unexceptionable.”